As a bi guy I have been to bathhouses across Canada. Several of them are like SW that now have all gender days. I have been to the all gender days at 5 of the bathhouses, including SW Edmonton. I have not seen any differences between SW here, and the other bathhouses in terms of atmosphere and behaviour. In fact, in my opinion, SW Edmonton is better managed and in much better shape than most of the others. Jim has been doing a good job in trying to keep up the renovations, create new spaces, and have a clean establishment. 

I can't speak for Jim, but from what I have seen here and in the other bathhouses, the intention has not been to create another swingers club. This has been primarily a bathouse for gay (and bi) men that has opened the doors to all genders. I have commented a lot previously about the fact that gay bathhouse culture is distinctly different than the culture of a swing club. If an guy is attracted to another guy when cruising around the club, there are several signals that he is interested, with one of them reaching out and touching as they pass in the hallways. This is obviously not the culture that many women or couples who attend swing clubs are used to, and touching without permission is a sign of disrespect to them. 

Yes, stalking does take place by some guys. And it also happens when there are no women present. On the other hand, cruising the hallways constantly is something that is part of the bathhouse culture. I think that what we have here is a clash of cultures and expectations. Just for clarity, I absolutely am not condoning the behaviour of some guys who don't take no for an answer, or who are abusive or who are indeed stalking. Just from years of experience though, I would suspect that these are more straight guys who are there to get laid by a woman.

Some excellent points here, I cannot imagine a woman going here on her own.  I’m not a frequent flyer as I work out of town for long stretches at a time but when home I’ll pop in for the nooner. I have noticed a few guys being very thirsty at times. I have even been chased around in there, kinda my fault for pitching a sideways tent but can’t imagine women being chased around. I’ve been to some of the clubs in toronto and the atmosphere is more of a fun get to know people crowd. Possibly the lounge idea upstairs would be welcomed. Hopefully sw can evolve.

@biguy . I just want to say, that was very well said and considerate of you.. no matter what the persons sexual orientations are or what their expectations are.. I don’t feel it’s on the owner or the establishment to change anything.. they have already increased the security enough

the place was originally a gay men’s bath house and continues to be on certain days. And there are no complaints. 

what people have to appreciate when attending. Is that Coed is a privilege the owner has setup for people wanting to experience many different things, and that’s only left the all mens nights to two per week. Some of those people just come to watch something they wish they had the opportunity to have .. If a person can’t hold up in that atmosphere on the specific day the place is Coed due to the attendance, then there might be a place or a day for that person that does with less of a turn out like a Monday at 3pm.  It’s not here to please everyone every night or change everything on one persons vote 

There are hundreds of people who post on here with zero complaints and who are quite happy with the outcomes of coming in on even the peak attendance days. If it’s too busy for most people they have the intuition to come in on a lower attendance day. Or a specific day that suites the style of experience they are seeking.

from my experience I feel that steam works over all has gotten better and better as years gone by and continues to be the safest cleanest place in the country.

As a female that goes just about every weekend I have to say that I love the bi atmosphere and would hate it if it turned into another swingers club , I have been going with my husband since it became co Ed and have seen major changes and feel much safer there. Plus the riff raff that used to go have been kicked out. The creepers that are left just need to be told off or tell the front so they can ban them which they are extremely good at doing when someone speaks up! What they don't know they can't fix... I get your point but the last thing this needs to turn into is another swingers club ... We have met some pretty awesome people there and would hate for it to change as a regular attender .

Crazy Dee is right on every account, while I do understand it is a gay man’s bath house first and foremost with the “culture” of gay/bi men cruising and reaching out with a silent hand gesture or touch, the men that she and many other women are talking about ARENT GAY OR BI, I have been many times (usually twice a week) to the point staff no me and my partner by names as we frequent the club, we enjoy the club but it needs a change even if it’s only the big couples/ladies days it would be a huge boost to the clientele of steamworks, having the lights up a bit more and the music turned down would be a huge improvement to the atmosphere of the club without too much work. Though when it comes to the main issue of the aggressive men that scare away clients, having a better vetting system could work or not allowing groups of men over 3 enter the club at once (I wa there when a large group of men came in and “stalked” the hallway as a group of 6) whcih could ease the pressure on couples/women I enjoy SW for the reason a lot do I can walk and talk and relax naked and be free without the booze and such of the other clubs but if nothing will be done to help bring and retain customers I may have to (along with my partners) go to other establishments thr staff are for the part amazing but they can only do so much 

Saying steam works needs to evolve or dissolve is a pretty negligent comment coming from someone who is on a rant about their personal experience, having not tried other days and times that suite their comfortable level of attendance. for a whole group of people who use this facility this comment and thread is ignorance.

from the best of my knowledge women get in for a heavy discount. Which brings no revenue for the rooms they fill in the weekend to a minimal. This allows them security and free privacy.. and is a privilege.

that leaves the men to only lockers on high attendance nights which fill hallways.. which is a loss in revenue on room rentals.

just like any establishment.. lady’s nights bring more men.. if a large attendance isn’t your thing than go on a day and at a time which accommodates your personal interest. 

the straight men who come in, once they see that they don’t stand a chance with any lady’s they come into contact with politely decline then they won’t just keep coming back.. they have no reason to. And they will dissipate naturally. As any man would know men have nothing to gain from being rejected.. 

Men come to see the women.. that’s why they are there, have you tried smiling and saying.  Hi, I see your level of interest. And I appreciate your interest but I’m going to have to politely and respectfully decline. maybe politely respectfully declining by using your Words help prevent misleading someone into following you. 

having a understanding of primal nature men pursue women. And to a lot of women they like to be pursued by a man who they have signalled. That’s human nature.. not a crime.. 

if you’re almost completely naked strutting around glancing at men what do you expect.. 

Interesting conversation. I would suggest upgrading the rules to weed out the morons. No means no and if you keep pushing, you get banned for a month or whatever. Harassment and/or stalking should not be allowed, in any way, shape or form.

If People are not comfortable, they will not come back as most will certainly share their experience with those who might be interested in going. Why loose precious horny customers? Just amend the rules to prevent certain issues and be strict about enforcing those rules.

I guarantee that if someone tried to push on me after continually being told no, it would not end well.. at all. At the same time, if I saw some chimp continually harass some woman while I'm there, I'd be sure to tell him to back the fuck up or else. Nothing wrong with everyone helping women feel safe because at the end of the day, they DO bring in the straight men.

To be honest the vibe has been changing for ladies and couples in last 6 months or so not as fun..but in comparison to a few regulars who thought they owned the place and had dibs on every female walking through the door a few yrs ago its better..yes there needs to be some dimly lit area for some discreet fun for the stuff going on for both men and women ....some activities are best done in an anonymous like setting to really work ...as well yes some guys get told no over 3 times and must be just about physically stopped from proceeding an activity...that's what the men we bring to help control the situations are for..as well we as a couple hope we can expect support from other men if the need arose to deal with a situation where someone goes to far and won't take no for an answer..both spouse and I had physically had to push someone away for not listening to instructions for play or parameters such as condom use..on the other hand some decent guys seem too shy to participate due to worries about offending the female or getting bullied out of the way in group scenarios..   ladies beware the pushy ones seem to have a lower level of condom use and have obvious signs of needing some sti treatment...these are the same guys touching themselves then reaching in on a group scenario spreading what them may or may not have on their hands..while many women and couples select bareback it seems to be the aggressive ones who try to play bare first then only if caught comply later..they are the ones then that ate pissy when rejected and become stalkers rest of night.   This has been our experience 

Wow how unfortunate 

Lots of very good points expressed here. Steamworks has been evolving since the day we opened. Steamworks will continue to evolve, I like the idea of expanding the lounge into the Captain's room area and will give it some thought.  I think having been a gay men's bathouse and evolving to welcome ladies, Transgendered, cross dressing, swinggers  and the bisexual community has been a very difficult juggle. It's certainly an ongoing process that continues to require adjustments. While I realize pleasing everyone is more a deam than a reality, my main focus and desire is that Steamworks be a safe space for everyone. Obviously we have work to do.

I have to add that I feel a great pride in what we have built and the diversity we have accomplished, much credit to the wonderful staff.

If others have comments or ideas please feel free to contribute. 

I wonder if the influx of creepy men has anything to do with the closing/destruction of Centerfolds and Times Square bookstores? From what we've read, it sounds like a lot of their former customers have made Steamworks their new spot and I can say that most of them are an unsavory bunch.

We don't have the experience with Steamworks to say what should or shouldn't happen, but common sense would dictate that safety should be made it's top priority. And we agree, women are what brings people in to any club, not the crowds of desperate men. Women should be protected and the place should not let itself fall into the same state as the peepshows i mentioned above. We prefer to have our anonymity, but would be ok with a membership system if that's what it takes to keep the ladies safe. Just our 2 cents...

@jimb 

I see alot of problems presented and not many suggestions offered. So I'll throw in my 2 cents.

The easiest change to implement immediately is more staff per shift. They are running off their feet to maintain all aspects of the space. The host(ess) is a key position that is dearly missed. It helps to know staff are more accessible if there is an incident to report. More often than not my instances of non consensual contact happen downstairs or in the darkest parts of the club. By the time I get upstairs to report the incident they have run away and hide. I then have to search the entire club with a staff member to identify the perpetrator so they can deal with the situation accordingly. (They do a fantastic job of this)

An extra staff will also contribute to a cleaner more hygienic space. More so recently there are used condoms left all over the club, soap dispensers are empty, the public play areas are left dirty from the previous users and when these are pointed out to staff most of the time they are so busy it's difficult for them to attend to these in a timely manner. 

I would greatly appreciate disinfectant spray and rags like they have at the gym. I'm aware not everyone will buy into this idea but I would then have opportunity to take some personal responsibility for my own safety.  

It would also be nice to have, once per month, an all ladies night as a proof of concept. We are a part of the community as well and from what I'm seeing in the comments we are feeling under represented. 

Perhaps as a way of gathering feedback from the clientele you might consider something like a Google form we could scan a QR code for or follow a link to. This would allow you to ask specific questions to guide you.  Allow the clientele to have a option to provide anonymous feedback or leave a contact they can be reached at for clarification. 

I appreciate the opportunity to open up the conversation with you and look forward to seeing what will come of it. 

@jimb Thank you for your response!!!! My intention with this post is to make you aware of the ladies experience with hopes you'll address the safety concerns we have.  We as women want SteamWorks to be a safer environment for us, so we can bring our friends confident of a positive experience!  I love SteamWorks and myself, I'm not afraid to stand up for myself and put men in their place - this is more about the newer women attending feeling safe and coming back.

Please, bring back the hostess position on Thursdays and Saturdays.  This person can give the new men and ladies an understanding of etiquette and expectations of behaviors.

Please consider the upstairs lounge idea!  A few TVs, some standing bar style tables, a couple couches, fill up the vending machine, offer more cold drinks for purchase.  Create a space where people can congregate and visit that's warm and inviting. Women will feel comfortable to come out of their rooms and bring their friends for the experience.  Wouldn't it be amazing to see say 10 ladies in the area, socialising with fellas, chatting and getting horny! Guys will feel more comfortable chatting with the ladies in that space, less hallway lurking and stalking.  Another thought, move the office to the corner of the captain's room by the window.

Thanks for hearing my thoughts!

@Jimb I was having a conversation with a friend this morning. Here are some more suggestions:

- In the upstairs lounge, have some sex furniture in the middle of the room. Like the flat leather mattress type that you lay side by side. Use it for seating most of the time, a no sex environment. Once a month or on special occasions, advertise for an orgy in the lounge. People will come for the opportunity to participate in the orgy or watch.

- consider selling pre-paid rooms with a premium on Thursdays and Saturdays for ladies and couples, not single men. Single men can only purchase lockers on those days.

- consider having for rent: more pillows, different coloured sheets for double rooms, whiteboards for your door (communicate what you're looking for or who you are on your door, it'll be a hit!)

- sex toy package & fuzzy blankets available for pre-order (pickup after check-in and take home with you) people will pay for addons if it's offered at check-in. Sex toy, mystery package by theme. Gay, male, female, couples, etc.

- consider creating a feedback form with Google forms & QR code to scan at exit.  Give an option for a callback from staff so people can provide real feedback.  Not a space to debate things, but if someone wants to be heard after their visit give them a way to provide feedback to trusted staff.

- consider a membership system, including day memberships.  Here people will need to register online ahead of arrival, upload their selfie and personal information. Assign them an ID number and scan their ID one time at arrival. Upload the ID to the profile somehow, approve it and the guest is set up.  When they return, they provide their membership number, staff types it in and pulls up their approved profile and they're good to go. When someone is banned, note it on the profile and you can keep the bad actors out. I saw a banned customer in the hottub Saturday night with a new haircut.

- Consider an elastic band system for identification. On entry, everyone is given a band with a number on it.  Write the band # on the receipt. If someone makes someone else feel unsafe, they can report the band number to the staff and the staff can call them over intercom to deal with the situation. Far too often, men are "lost" in the crowd and can't be found. This will hold customers more accountable while not compromising anonymity.  They can be purchased in bulk easily online and are not cost prohibitive.

- consider asking customers to help with renovation projects. Offer them a membership discount. Speaking for most of us, I think we'd all be happy to help you make changes happen. Consider just posting on SteamTalk if anyone has a skill with electrical, construction, etc. I bet if you asked for furniture donations, people would be more than happy to help with that too. Asking for help, decorating for theme nights, get your customers involved in making the club better and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

- please, PLEASE fix the playpen door by moving the hinges to the other side. Its a safety hazard, people are falling onto the bed trying to close the door, it's awkward and uncomfortable. Please please fix it.

- can a dowel be installed by the elevated chair in the slurp ramp for us ladies to rest our feet on? Even a tension rod will be a huge improvement.

Well, lots is being said here!

Hard to unpack all the rants from constructive criticism, but all valid concerns.  

Suggestions 

1) Posters

* No Means NO! (probably shouldn't have to put up, but obviously some ladies have some concerns),

* Be a gentleman / gentlelady, be respectful of everyone (Even if she is a "Dude Looks like a Lady" - Aerosmith 1987). 

* Set your boundaries up front, and its ok and acceptable by each party to change the boundaries as needed - again, be respectful.

2) I really like the suggestion of the whiteboards on the doors, or pictograms of what the person is into!

3) As a Patron of such a fine establishment, stand up for your fellow kinksters and speak up and offer assistance if you suspect someone is in need of help or guidance. It is not just up to staff and management to make Steamworks a safe place; it's the patrons' responsibility to speak up and say what is acceptable behavior. 

4) If you have hard limits to your level of kink, communicate them upfront! Once it's past the wrist, it might be too late to say Just the tip, please. 

5) Encourage some level of communication for your safety, for as long as I have been going, it is common to barely say a word, just point and grunt or moan. A lounge might encourage a certain style of communication, but that is not exactly the vibe most bathhouses have. 

6) I do not get there as often as I would like, always working away - but I am happy to see the improvements being done, as for the concern of being dark and dingy - that is the bathhouse vibe, I was in Vegas the other month every where I went lights are low walls are dark (mostly because we all look better with the light low), some are glow in the dark themes! there are some lounges or private venues in Vegas that have the swingers lounge appeal, drinks are served, private rooms available - no open sex that I saw anyway, but because they have permits for alcohol, they get a bigger crowd, and with alcohol and bigger crowds come bigger security risk, and they are more of a nightclub than a bathhouse. So, for those looking for more glam than bang, go to Vegas. Alternatively, Jim could possibly be persuaded to glam up a room or two for a premium price in return. That being said, it is probably not worth the cost, as almost every time I am there, nobody is renting the premium rooms (captain's room, playpen) anyway.

7) Along the idea of armbands and whiteboards - maybe Steamworks could produce a breakaway lanyard for around the neck that identifies the person and kinks they like, and for the random visitors, they can get a generic lanyard that identifies them to the Staff. 

Anyway, play safe(ish), enjoy each other, and stand up for those in need to make Steamworks a safe place.

Thanks to Jim and the staff for making Steamworks a great place to play, even if my level of kink as a Sissy-CD is not what everyone is looking for every day - I can accept special days for special kinks (won't stop me from showing up every day I can).